american public school system

[mr_j]

there is shitty course offerings at mostly black schools in the chicago area. as far as i know, black people don't speak african tribal languages anymore, so those schools dont have bilingual cirriculums.

there were serious attempts to get ebonics classified as a language. and i bet you'll find that the 'mostly black' schools also have a large hispanic student population, too.

[Dalya]

yes you need to teach them english, but you cant expect a student to just start taking classes in english. how would they keep up? they should take rigorous english courses, but there still needs to be options for students who dont know english. or have schools specifically set up for students who need to learn english. then all the kids who need to go there can be bussed there and they can find bilingual staff for that specific school, easing the burden on the rest of the district.

just like at stonewall jackson, they have tons of hearing impaired kids and the teachers and staff all know sign language. they just bus kids in from all over dallas who are hearing impaired. its also one of the best schools in the metroplex, including private schools, in my opinion.

[Dalya]

uh. no. when i say "mostly" i mean 90%. and most of the hispanics in chicago can speak english. its in the southern states where the language barrier is more of a significant problem.

[mr_j]

then good luck getting a teaching job in TX.

BTW, I never had a bilingual class and I was, by far, in the minority all through my public school education.

why would it be hard for me to get a teaching job in texas...because i think the system's fucked up and can see what the problem is? i don't see what you're getting at.

and yeah, 15-20 years ago, when we were in public schools, we didn't have a lot of the same problems we do now.

[mr_j]

just like at stonewall jackson, they have tons of hearing impaired kids and the teachers and staff all know sign language. they just bus kids in from all over dallas who are hearing impaired. its also one of the best schools in the metroplex, including private schools, in my opinion.

there's a difference between handicapped students and those who don't speak English, thanks to the ADA.

[lennon]

then good luck getting a teaching job in TX.

BTW, I never had a bilingual class and I was, by far, in the minority all through my public school education.

were you in the disd like me? its great being a minority when your white.

[aquaphase]

why would it be hard for me to get a teaching job in texas...because i think the system's fucked up and can see what the problem is? i don't see what you're getting at.

It's because you're thinking. That's dangerous. If you aren't going to teach to the test then you will be a useless teacher. Oh, and your kids better fucking pass that test or your ass will be in a sling

(sarcasm on the internet is hard to get across)

[Dalya]

i didn't say its the same thing, i said my example of a schools specifically set aside for bilingual kids is possible, as demonstrated by stonewall jackson.

you say you can see what the problem is but i haven't seen you pinpoint anything yet except bilingual classes. that doesnt explain why white kids are dropping out of wealthy public schools too.

i dont think microsoft has much to do with this conversation. who cares if he does or doesnt get anything out of it? the point is, hes getting people talking, which is what needs to happen. period.

[froggorino]

you want to know how to teach them at a better level? STOP MAKING SCHOOL CURRICULUM BILINGUAL.

and maybe if we broke out of the culture mindset of 'i'm poor so therefore i'm stupid and shouldn't try because people tell us being poor means being stupid' then we'd get somewhere.

I just love how your two statements contradict each other.

they don't contradict themselves. bilingual education is totally overrunning public education, and it's creating a class division. i really doubt that middle-class hispanics would not recognize the value of speaking English in an English-based culture, and would demand it of the public schools. and if you teach these kids that they don't have to learn the language and function in an English-based society, then you're handicapping them even further. hell, the state of texas is so afraid of offending the hispanic leaders, that their tests and literatures pathetically do NOT refer to 'bilingual education' or to "spanish-speaking" students. they're referred to as 'English Language Learners."

you create class divisions if you show that there is no reason to move beyond your class. telling someone that they do not have to confirm to the language standards of a society in order to get by, you are not only doing a disservice to that student, it's almost a form of abuse.

most other countries have more than one acceptable language. it is imperialist and against our supposedly inclusive doctrines to mandate that english be the only acceptable language. the US is young, and it is inevitable that we will become a multilingual nation, too.

that being said, i will agree that the language does not have the respect in the united states that other countries have. i mean, other languages do not have quite the history of intentional bastardization that english gets here in the US.

we need to remember that in the rest of the world, it is common that folks are fluent in more than one language. i think it is important that we teach ESL kids english, too -- of course. but what is wrong with the us becoming a bit more multilingual in the process? it makes us look like ignorant hicks if we are unwilling to embrace other cultures and their languages. it's not that freakin hard.

more simply put, if they can be expected to learn english, why can we not be bothered to learn another language. next year dolan is taking japanese, and my sister speaks it too. and i think that's pretty cool.

frog"had 3 years of spanish, and four years of french and latin each, and it never hurt me a damn stinkin bit"gy

[aquaphase]

then good luck getting a teaching job in TX.

BTW, I never had a bilingual class and I was, by far, in the minority all through my public school education.

were you in the disd like me? its great being a minority when your white.

fuck no. I grew up in a New Mexico border town. You've got waaaaay too many whities here in D-town for my liking

[mr_j]

yes you need to teach them english, but you cant expect a student to just start taking classes in english. how would they keep up? they should take rigorous english courses, but there still needs to be options for students who dont know english. or have schools specifically set up for students who need to learn english.

well, see, i agree with this, to some extent. but it'll never happen, because it reeks too much of Plessy vs. Ferguson.

as for the 'you can't expect them to just start taking classes in englsh'--um...you can make it explicitly clear to them that they won't have classes in their own languages. we did that for many, many years--you don't think the immigrants off the boat in ellis island sent their kids to schools and said 'don't learn the language, it'll be taught in your own language for you!' no, of course not.

see, the thing is, there's a difference between teaching and learning, and the catalysts that create the foundations for excellent learning extend outside of the classroom setting, and education should not be responsible for all of it, if any of it.

[aquaphase]

we need to remember that in the rest of the world, it is common that folks are fluent in more than one language.

Froggy does bring up a good point here. How many American Forkers here can speak more than one language? Hell, I'll even entertain answers from the non-American Forkers.

I speak 2: English & German.

[Dalya]

my mom had to learn 5 languages when she was in highschool. i think kids should be required to take 2 here and it should start at a MUCH younger age. i'm talking 3. its so much easier to learn a language when youre really young. why not utilize a little kids time teaching them other languages instead of just setting them in front of the TV for 5 hours and letting elmo baby-sit them?

[aquaphase]

my mom had to learn 5 languages when she was in highschool. i think kids should be required to take 2 here and it should start at a MUCH younger age. i'm talking 3. its so much easier to learn a language when youre really young. why not utilize a little kids time teaching them other languages instead of just setting them in front of the TV for 5 hours and letting elmo baby-sit them?

Hell yes! When I was tiny and at a Montessori school, I learned German, Spanish and American Sign Language. I shrugged off most of the Spanish and ASL, but the German stuck and I kept taking it.

[Dalya]

i speak 2, hebrew and spanish. but i'm pretty rusty on my hebrew at this point. i've sort of entertained the idea of teaching myself french but i haven't tried very hard as of yet, besides looking at a Babar book.