selling out

[Dalya]

theres a difference between logan playing a shitty gig and logan selling a song that he wrote that he loves to something he doesnt love (a corporation).

i dont think its putting artists up on a pedestal to expect sincerity and integrity from them. i expect that of all people and i think all people are capable of integrity AND earning a living. i think its pretty defeatist to assume that you have to give up at least part of what you beleive in to survive. i think its the opposite.

you have to be a person of substance. you have to matter to yourself or you sure as hell wont matter to anyone else.

[Dalya]

-All About The Music

am i missing something?

[Mr. Umpet]

I'd like to see you go out and get a band, tour internationally for a few years, come back $50,000 in debt with several failed records and two STDs. And then talk about selling out. Shit, you'd have to sell out just to pay for your VD pillzzz.

Just kidding. Stick to the local scene so you'll only get one STD and a huge bar tab.

[Dalya]

if you have HIV you have my permission to sell out and/or to explot your disease for money. i will not judge you. (or i wont vocalize it.)

p.s. shouldnt be practicing for the steinberg bar mitzvah?

[zenmomma]

maybe the camera angles are good, but a commercial can never have soul. therefore its not art.

I completely disagree with that.

This is a difficult discussion because art is subjective. I don't think it is possible to define what art really is. Absolutely have your opinion, but I think it is pointless to try to define it.

I've worked on hundreds of different video & television productions. It takes a lot of time, effort and creativity to create something powerful and moving, especially in 30 to 60 seconds. Each person involved in the process is using their creative skills in the best way... the camera man, the graphic designer, the director, the editor... they are all artists.

Ads are designed to sell, but it doesn't make the craft that goes into making them any less artful than other forms. I am the type of person who isn't compelled to purchase something just because I see an ad on TV. I might enjoy the images, the story, the sounds, the feeling and know when I've seen a good piece of work.... that doesn't mean I'm going to walk out the door and buy that car, but damn if I don't get happy the next time that ad comes on.

I personally don't feel that a song looses its meaning out of context. I know that I have discovered great music from Target ads and other ads. After seeing the ad, I've gone online and found out who the artist was.

Also... for those smaller and up and coming bands, I think it provides them with a lucrative source of income that might be missing and allows them the exposure that isn't confined to mainstream radio & MTV.

I know we've talked about this a million times before on Arborwood/Spork and I always refer back to this article from the NY Times about one of my favorite bands: For Rock Bands, Selling Out Isn't What It Used to Be

[Dalya]

theres a difference between being creative/beautifully shot/well executed/ even moving and having SOUL. i know advertisers are creative thinkers and theyre intelligent and im sure a lot of them are extremely nice and generous people. but i'm sorry. a commercial, that is a TV space set aside to advertise a product, will never have soul. thats my opinion. soul is a part of you, that means your expressing something not trying to achieve something (sales). even if youre trying to achieve a reaction (like GM's commercials about how beautiful the earth is and how much they want to do to save the planet) youre still aiming to get something out of it, and that, IMO, is not art.

this is all starting to sound very pretentious, but i think real art seeks no reward except the relief of having expressed what needed to be expressed.

just because something isnt art doesnt mean its not worthwhile. i think the new dove ad campaign is worthwhile. but it doesnt have soul.

[zenmomma]

i think its pretty defeatist to assume that you have to give up at least part of what you beleive in to survive. i think its the opposite.

Very true, but that is a hard road to walk. I feel it is a bit more about finding a balance. I wish I could say that I've lived my entire life by this rule, but I haven't. But if you can, I congratulate you.

I understand what you are getting at... but what it comes down to is how the individual artist feels about how his work is being used. It only REALLY matters to him. Other people's art does not belong to us. It only belongs to the one who created it. The way they see fit to expose it is entirely up to them.

[Dutch]

$130 is fucking ridic to see a shriveled up old man who used to sing w/ 3 other guys, but people still pay it.

No it's not. Paul McCartney was one of the best shows I've ever seen in my life, by a long shot, without a doubt. I would've paid twice that if I'd had to, and with hindsight, probably more.

[Dutch]

There is no such thing as selling out. It doesn't exist. It's a fictional construct of hipster culture, or perhaps jealousy or something very closely related, or, at best, an antiquated dictum from a time when the relationship between art and business was different... I guess.

Only quality matters (which is subjective, of course). Money is irrelevant in the face of quality.

There is no such thing as selling out. Only quality matters.



There is no such thing as selling out. Only quality matters.

[Dutch]

Holy Sh*t ^ ^

[James]

Musicians want an audience, because most musicians would like to live as musicians. If an artist allows a company to use one of their songs in a commercial, more often than not they're coming from it at the angle of "They're going to pay me to reach a wider audience". Since radio has become so razor-thin in scope, a lot of artists view this as a way to be heard without the radio hit.

Of course, it can be come consuming, just like the unyielding pursuit of "the hit". I've seen it transform many a band.

At the end of the day, every consumer has the right not to buy stuff in commercials. Stereolab didn't make me buy a Volkswagen. Jet didn't make me want to buy an ipod; the ipod made me want that. And every consumer has the right not to buy and/or like the output of a band. The artist puts it out there, but with praise more often than not will also come ridicule. It's just part of it. At the end of the day, it comes down to whether people like the artist's albums enough to buy them, and perhaps support them by other means.

Plus, I wouldn't have heard of Jose Gonzalez had it not been for that commercial. I simply don't have time to research music like I used to. I try and hear it from every direction I can, and in some cases those commercials help.

[James]

I'd like to see you go out and get a band, tour internationally for a few years, come back $50,000 in debt with several failed records and two STDs. And then talk about selling out. Shit, you'd have to sell out just to pay for your VD pillzzz.

Just kidding. Stick to the local scene so you'll only get one STD and a huge bar tab.

You forgot about smack rehab. That costs money too.

[froggorino]

it trips me oput when people get so judgemental about the choices others make in order to make a basic living. i mean, what the fuck?

that is all.

[roach]

selling out has jumped the shark.

my favorite commercial right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1XJRsHISJY

[eebs]

this is my favourite advert at the mo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjz2Dv0JmIw




if you don't recognise them, the pub team is made up of ex england internationals including 2 world cup winners, the manager is sir bobby robson who managed england to a world cup semi final in 1990