american public school system

[Dalya]

bill gates has started a new campaign to bring attention to the american public school system and the slogan is something like "what good is it graduating in 2006 from a school system that was designed in 1956?"

discuss.

[Dalya]

video and transcript of his speach

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/MediaCen ... 050226.htm

[mr_j]

i don't buy into it at all. the system may have its flaws, but what he says is just bullshit. he's only doing this for the money. think bill gates cares really cares about the education system?

the system may be flawed, but it doesn't need microsoft to fuck it up even more.

[Sybil]

the system may be flawed, but it doesn't need microsoft to fuck it up even more.

Reminds me of a joke

Q: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. They'll just declare darkness the standard.

Not everything that was designed in 1956 needs to be junked.

Sy "oh my god, I'm agreeing with Mr. J" bil

[Dalya]

microsoft isnt doing it. bill gates and his wife are. theres a difference.

and bill gates isnt writing the legislation, he's trying to bring some attention to the fact that our schools are a piece of shit and our kids are dumb and 1 million kids drop out of highschool every year. american students ranked number 1 in the world 20 years ago and now they're 24th behind pretty much every school in europe and some poorer countries too.

[mr_j]

microsoft isnt doing it. bill gates and his wife are. theres a difference.

and bill gates isnt writing the legislation, he's trying to bring some attention to the fact that our schools are a piece of shit and our kids are dumb and 1 million kids drop out of highschool every year. american students ranked number 1 in the world 20 years ago and now they're 24th behind pretty much every school in europe and some poorer countries too.

the difference? bill doesn't have to pay taxes on the money he makes from his foundation, as it'll probably be classified as an NPO. and if you don't think microsoft won't profit from it, then you're naive, and that's putting it nicely.

the system needs to be fixed. and the first place to start is for people to stop dismissing american kids as stupid and that are schools are pieces of shit. of course, do those other countries have widespread public education programs like America does? do they have the large number of people demanding public education? and does the one million dropout rate really reflect something negative, or is the number actually smaller in comparison to the ratio of students actually in school?

[mr_j]

and youwant to know the first thing to do? PAY TEACHERS BETTER. and start instigating more RESPECT for the profession. those other countries, i can damn well bet that their teachers are treated with a lot more RESPECT than our teachers are.

[Dalya]

"Once we realize that we are keeping low-income and minority kids out of rigorous courses, there can be only two arguments for keeping it that way – either we think they can’t learn, or we think they’re not worth teaching. The first argument is factually wrong; the second is morally wrong.

Everyone who understands the importance of education; everyone who believes in equal opportunity; everyone who has been elected to uphold the obligations of public office should be ashamed that we are breaking our promise of a free education for millions of students.

For the sake of our young people and everyone who will depend on them – we must stop rationing education in America. "

i liked this part the best.

[mr_j]

"Once we realize that we are keeping low-income and minority kids out of rigorous courses, there can be only two arguments for keeping it that way – either we think they can’t learn, or we think they’re not worth teaching. The first argument is factually wrong; the second is morally wrong.

you want to know how to teach them at a better level? STOP MAKING SCHOOL CURRICULUM BILINGUAL.

and maybe if we broke out of the culture mindset of 'i'm poor so therefore i'm stupid and shouldn't try because people tell us being poor means being stupid' then we'd get somewhere.

[aquaphase]

you want to know how to teach them at a better level? STOP MAKING SCHOOL CURRICULUM BILINGUAL.

and maybe if we broke out of the culture mindset of 'i'm poor so therefore i'm stupid and shouldn't try because people tell us being poor means being stupid' then we'd get somewhere.

I just love how your two statements contradict each other.

[Dalya]

number one, i intend to teach elementary school so i don't know why youre capitalizing respect as if everyone on this forum hates teachers.

number two, i said american kids are dumb because theyre not being educated. which is true.

number 3 american schools are not only seperate, but theyre not equal. and i think its sort of disgusting that people just assume that minority schools will just inherently be more run down and have less challenging courses. why dont we just tell black kids theyre dumb and they dont deserve to take AP classes while we're at it?

number 4, yes the dropout rate reflects something negative. it varies from school to school, but at a lot of schools about 1/3 of the kids are dropping out of each grade. so if 300 kids start out in the freshman class, only 200 of them will graduate. THATS RIDICULOUS! I almost dropped out of highschool and i was at a good school. but even a good school is not good enough. the teaching methods are outdated and proven inefective. students need to move in order to learn, not sit in rows taking notes like a microchip. in any case, it should be illegal for a kid to drop out of school when theyre 16. you cant drink until youre 21 but you can drop out of highschool when youre 16? which decision effects the rest of your life more? hmm...

[Dalya]

there is shitty course offerings at mostly black schools in the chicago area. as far as i know, black people don't speak african tribal languages anymore, so those schools dont have bilingual cirriculums.

[mr_j]

you want to know how to teach them at a better level? STOP MAKING SCHOOL CURRICULUM BILINGUAL.

and maybe if we broke out of the culture mindset of 'i'm poor so therefore i'm stupid and shouldn't try because people tell us being poor means being stupid' then we'd get somewhere.

I just love how your two statements contradict each other.

they don't contradict themselves. bilingual education is totally overrunning public education, and it's creating a class division. i really doubt that middle-class hispanics would not recognize the value of speaking English in an English-based culture, and would demand it of the public schools. and if you teach these kids that they don't have to learn the language and function in an English-based society, then you're handicapping them even further. hell, the state of texas is so afraid of offending the hispanic leaders, that their tests and literatures pathetically do NOT refer to 'bilingual education' or to "spanish-speaking" students. they're referred to as 'English Language Learners."

you create class divisions if you show that there is no reason to move beyond your class. telling someone that they do not have to confirm to the language standards of a society in order to get by, you are not only doing a disservice to that student, it's almost a form of abuse.

[lennon]

the difference? bill doesn't have to pay taxes on the money he makes from his foundation, as it'll probably be classified as an NPO. and if you don't think microsoft won't profit from it, then you're naive, and that's putting it nicely.

how exactly do you figure microsoft will 'profit' from the foundation? besides maybe good PR, the two are totally seperate. you make it sound as though bill has a foundation so he can make more money for himself. no one in history has given more money to charity. according to a recent time article he has given away billions through the foundation.

[aquaphase]

then good luck getting a teaching job in TX.

BTW, I never had a bilingual class and I was, by far, in the minority all through my public school education.